Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums Movie Forum Suicide negotiation w/ front bumper of cruiser

Fair enough Sonya, I agree no one should laugh at the misfortune of another. I just think that your comparison didn't work too well in this scenario.


My my point in all this is that no one was there yet everyone wants to second guess and assume that they could do better. The officer made a split second decision with extremely limited information and a very dangerous situation and no one was killed. Sounds like success to me. I don't know about a "Trap," it was more of an oh shit get away from this guy he has a loaded assault rifle. Then his partner makes a split second decision to risk his own life to run the subject over.



The Officer did his job. The reason we know this? Because of the witnesses that testified in front of the grand jury. The reason that he lost his job? The media picked the most outspoken members that were willing to talk to them at the time they arrived on scene and went with whatever lies they were given. The people that were talking to the media did not witness the fight and did not testify. Thus, the people watching the media hear that he was surrendering and was executed for doing nothing. Yet, the witnesses that testified in the jury trial stated something completely different. Weird how the media didn't do any source checking, or try to find actual witnesses, or think like a reasonable human being. Yet many people, including the media, are calling for cops to wear body cameras:He did his job and was crucified. Now people think cops should be held accountable when really, the news cameras on scene broadcast bogus information, inciting riots, more cops getting shot, and turmoil across the country. IMO people are calling for the wrong people to be held accountable.



This is something that really bugs me. The lack of education of the public when calling for these "Movements." "Why didn't you OC or TASER him?" is a frequent question. TASER works maybe 40% of the time. OC works 0% of the time. You know why? OC is nothing but pain and after approximately 15 minutes you lose your vision, however the fight isn't on pause for those 15 minutes. I can tell you from person experience, there is nothing scarier than being in a back alley talking with a dude equal size and weight who displays signs of being on PCP while wearing a thick jacket. While advancing on you he says "Fuck you, you aint gonna detain me today." TASER is not an option because of that jacket. OC spray will inevitably awaken the dragon and put me in a living hell for 15 minutes if I survive. Yet, it's quite obvious I cannot shoot him. It's not the same situation that guy ran into but I don't accept that excuse of "He had no other options." If my partner's hadn't arrived I was in a 1 on 1 fist fight with a man on PCP, just like that activist should have done fought him straight up. After 3 of us safely got him cuffed and finished talking to him I asked him about when I first stopped him. He said he was probably gonna fuck me up if my partner hadn't shown up before he made up his mind. I asked him why, and his response: "You know how it is."

If I wear a body camera you will NEVER see that video footage. Why? Because I was able to de-escalate the situation by talking to him until my partners arrived and then I let him off with 3 misdemeanor violation warnings. What you will see is what the media wants you to see. They will pick something to make a priority story and shorten that video clip to show some heinous law enforcement act.

Anti, your last post sort of sums up what I said to you in a previous thread. I think you're too far to one side of the issue to be objective because you're a cop. I don't fault you for that at all. I have no doubt that if I were in your shoes doing the job you do every day, my perspective on the issue would be much more similar to yours.

I would like to point out what I think is a flaw in your logic though in that last post, if I am reading correctly.

One the one hand, you say that everyone on the outside wants to second guess the officers decision and think that they could do better, but that the officer made a split second decision with limited information in a dangerous situation and nobody was killed.

Fair enough, I respect that statement. It's kinda like the whole concealed carry thing in a sense. In the event they ever need to use it, a responsible person with a CCW is going to have million thoughts going through their head the instant before they draw that weapon. Also, an informed civilian knows that the standard for justifiable homicide by which they will be judged will be FAR more strict than an officer of the law, so you better be damn sure you're pulling it for a good reason if you don't want to end up in prison. I use that example because it's the closes analogy I can think of to using lethal force justifiably if you're not a cop. So that said, I can agree with your statement.

You were a bit vague with your response to my quote about all cops needing body cameras. I think you are disagreeing? If so, then your logic is not consistent. Your statement I agreed with above hinges on the idea that we, the general public, are supposed to trust cops to make split second, life or death decisions and trust that they will make the right decision. If cops have body cameras that record encounters with suspects from start to finish, then either a prosecutor or a grand jury can review that footage and determine if the cop made a mistake. Why would it be bad to have proof of whether or not the trust in police that general public is supposed to have is well founded?

Let me phrase this another way. As someone who works in law, I frequently come across the term, "conflict of interest". I am sure you are familiar with that concept. In law, it's when an attorney's personal interest conflict with his professional interest. For example, if I am a criminal attorney and know a client has zero valid defenses, I convince him to go trial anyway to rack up my legal bill, knowing he will end up with a longer prison sentence than taking a deal. Bad for the client (my professional interest) but good for me (personal interest).

Absent video evidence, often times issue of excessive force hinges on the testimony of the officer(s) involved. If those officers are found to have used excessive force, then their careers can suffer. Could there be a more clear case of conflict of interest? Cops are people too, as you keep reminding us, people with families who depend on their financial support. Leaving it up to their discretion on whether or not to tell the truth when their careers are at stake is simply a bad idea, because human nature relies on self-preservation. Body cameras that allow video footage of every altercation are seriously a no-fucking-brainer. Allowing an independent, non-biased 3rd party review of cases where excessive force are claimed is kind of a big deal because of the whole conflict of interest thing. For those of us that don't have a badge, it would be nice to have all encounters recorded so that in the event of questionable circumstances, there is a clear and unbiased record of the events that took place. Moreover, as a cop, why WOULDN'T you want that? Then there'd be no more Michael Brown cases with the media creating a false narrative and ruining the career of police officers. With video feeds running start to finish, there'd be a clear record.

Also, whaaaattt?? Dude I will defer to your judgment in the field, but I can't agree with 0%. I have personally pepper sprayed someone who was CLEARLY on stimulants (probably coke or meth) at point blank range with civilian strength pepper spray and it dropped them immediately. I mean instantly with them screaming and grabbing their face.

This thread sucks now.

Been OC'D in the eyes in the military. Part of a hand to hand combat course. It hurt like hell but didn't come anywhere close to stopping me from fighting. Think that guy was a pussy.

I can also second Anti on the tazer. It can be debilitating but it's a coin flip on if you get a good bite with the barbs and do I get them out before it's on like Donkey Kong. I was a guinea pig for some of the MP training and it was hit and miss if it'd put me down in time. I hated getting hit with the bean bags and that fucking plastic round fired from a launcher (m32 I think it was) more. Wore heavy clothes for that and still wanted no part of a fight after it.

I skipped over most of the TLDR posts but, it seems to me like Sheriff deputies and Public defenders are natural enemies.

You got the gist of it then.

Sonya went all Lawyer.
Anti went all Police.
Vermi went all Vermi.