Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Anyone else seen this newest commericial on Kerry?

The thing is, Moore's movie is not playing on the public air waves, these commercials are. The television ads for Fahrenheit which featured Bush were in fact pulled. Now if an organization is spewing inflammatory lies such as these on the public air waves, it should stop, period. And those 59 lies you speak of, would you please enumerate them and site your sources so I can dispute you further on this thread. kthx <img src="/~stretch/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I guess you agree then that it is lies, but it is fair? That's pretty sad. More lies from the GOP supporters aren't going to change anyones mind. American's aren't as stupid as you think they are.
On a personal note I think it is disgusting to personally attack someone who honorably served their country in Vietnam by misrepresenting their record and questioning their patriotism. It was disgusting when it was done to McCain in the 2000 primaries and it was disgusting when it was done to Max Cleland in the 2002 senate race. This party of "patriots" ran ads during that campaign that showed Max Cleland's picture morphing into Osama Bin Laden. This is a an who had lost 3 limbs fighting in vietnam, worked for veterans rights, and then served his country as a senator. How can you honestly support that type of behavior?
Here's some stuff from FoxNews about the Lying Swift Boat Vets.
FOX News Channel pushed harder on the credibility of some of the group's members. On several shows throughout the afternoon and evening, including Special Report with Brit Hume, FOX News Channel chief political correspondent Carl Cameron provided substantial background on some key Kerry critics. Cameron reported that the veterans held a news conference "essentially to trash [Kerry]" and that much of their criticism "dramatically conflicts with the public record." Cameron stated, "Senator Kerry has released most of his military records and for the most part, they are a glowing detail of his military service." Not only does their criticism conflict with what The New York Times described in an April 22 article as Kerry's "uniformly positive" evaluations included in his military records, but, as Cameron also reported, their criticism is inconsistent with statements previously made by many of the Swift Boat Vets themselves. Cameron reported that in 1968, Kerry critic Grant W. Hibbard,[1] a lieutenant commander in Vietnam during Kerry's tour:
... described Kerry in various favorable ways, as quote, "One of the top few in his willingness to seek and accept responsibility." Captain George Elliot, who served in Vietnam at the same time Kerry did, condemns Kerry now for touting his service in a war that Kerry later protested. ... But in '96, Elliot and other critics of today, praised him for going after the enemy.
Beyond pointing out the inconsistent statements by some of Kerry's critics, Cameron also reported that Democrats say that "many of them ... have become Republicans ... who have supported the Bush campaigns in Texas, have been close friends of the Bush family both in politics and business." Cameron stated on Special Report with Brit Hume, "The GOP says it's not involved with the veterans criticizing Kerry, but many of them are Republicans who have contributed to and backed various Bush campaigns and causes over the decades."
http://mediamatters.org/items/200405050004
Bush is desparate and is going down.

Who is John O'Neil other than the leader of Lying Swift Boat Vets
This is at the end of the article below but very pertinent.
Beyond his role in the Nixon administration's strategy to undermine Kerry in the 1970s, O'Neill is also connected to Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist (a Nixon appointee) and to former President George H.W. Bush, according to Houston Chronicle articles from March 31 and April 21. In the late 1970s, O'Neill clerked for Rehnquist; in 1990, according to an October 7, 1991, report by Texas Lawyer, the former President Bush considered O'Neill for a federal judgeship vacancy.
Full Article Here
Who is John O'Neill?
CNN's Blitzer failed to probe partisan ties of Kerry critic
The May 4 Wall Street Journal editorial page featured an op-ed by John O'Neill about Senator John Kerry under the headline "Unfit to Serve." O'Neill is identified by the paper as having "served in Coastal Division 11 in 1969-1970, winning two Bronze Stars and additional decorations for his service in Vietnam." As Joe Conason wrote in Salon.com on May 4, O'Neill has long-standing ties to the GOP establishment, and O'Neill's own p.r. adviser has described O'Neill as sounding like "a crazed extremist."
O'Neill is one of several Vietnam veterans who have criticized Kerry and called into question the decorations he received for his service combat. O'Neill is associated with the newly formed group "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," which held a press conference on May 4 that was promoted by the Media Research Center's Cybercast News Service and highlighted by The Drudge Report on May 3. According to Cybercast News, "Hundreds of former commanders and military colleagues of presumptive Democratic nominee John Kerry are set to declare in a signed letter that he is 'unfit to be commander-in-chief.'"
The Heritage Foundation's website Townhall.com became a vehicle for bringing O'Neill back to the current media spotlight. On April 2, Townhall.com published a syndicated column by Mona Charen -- and on April 8, David Horowitz's FrontPage Magazine published a timeline by Winter Solider.com -- both making brief mention of a 1971 debate between Kerry and O'Neill on The Dick Cavett Show in which O'Neill accused Kerry of lying about the activities and conduct of American military forces in Vietnam.
On April 20, O'Neill made his cable debut on CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports. During the interview, O'Neill said that John Kerry told "damaging lies" about war crimes in Vietnam. He said, "We know the truth and we know that [John Kerry] is unfit to be the commander in chief." O'Neill continued, "I think you'll find people are very, very angry at John Kerry. They remember his career in Vietnam as a short, controversial one. And they believe only Hollywood could turn this guy into a war hero. I saw some war heroes, Wolf. John Kerry is not a war hero. He couldn't tie the shoes of some of the people in Coastal Division 11."
Though Blitzer acknowledged that questions were likely to be raised about whether O'Neill was speaking out against Kerry for political reasons, Blitzer conceded that he had not looked into O'Neill's partisan affiliations. "Maybe you're a Republican -- I have no idea -- or the Bush people are encouraging you," Blitzer said.
Houston lawyer John O'Neill is a Republican -- as the Houston Chronicle noted the day after O'Neill's interview with Blitzer. According to the paper, O'Neill voted in the 1998 Republican state primary. But O'Neill's ties to the Republican Party extend far beyond party affiliation. During the CNN interview, Blitzer reported that former President Richard Nixon had urged O'Neill to publicly counter Kerry on The Dick Cavett Show, but there is more to the story. O'Neill was a creation of the Nixon administration, as Joe Klein detailed in the January 5 issue of The New Yorker. Former Nixon special counsel Chuck Colson told Klein that Kerry was an "articulate" and "credible leader" of those veterans calling for an end to the Vietnam War and therefore "an immediate target of the Nixon Administration." As such, the Nixon administration found it necessary to "create a counterfoil" to Kerry. Colson recounted, "We found a vet named John O'Neill and formed a group called Vietnam Veterans for a Just Peace. We had O'Neill meet the President, and we did everything we could do to boost his group." Articles from the April 21 Houston Chronicle and the June 17, 2003, Boston Globe confirm close ties between O'Neill and the Nixon administration.
Beyond his role in the Nixon administration's strategy to undermine Kerry in the 1970s, O'Neill is also connected to Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist (a Nixon appointee) and to former President George H.W. Bush, according to Houston Chronicle articles from March 31 and April 21. In the late 1970s, O'Neill clerked for Rehnquist; in 1990, according to an October 7, 1991, report by Texas Lawyer, the former President Bush considered O'Neill for a federal judgeship vacancy.

as we think they are

so saying you served with someone is lying if you just serve with them?

No, they did not serve with him.
"How could all these ppl lie about serving with him and ppl not know?"
Actually, they do know.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/comment/story/0,14259,1278021,00.html
The negative spins from soft-money on both sides are simply polluting the whole process.
I don't agree with the coziness with the sideline groups on both side, be they "micheal moores", or" liars for vietnam boat pilots".
I don't think the person you replied to is spinning anything on that issue.

59 Deceits from the infamous M. Moore <---- There is proof kthnx <img src="/~stretch/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
There ya go, there is some good reading in there and it explains it in utter detail.
Oh ok so lets draw the line at, public access and not the movie industry. Lets censor public access but NOT the movie industry. Come on man, i dont agree with negative campaigning but each side is equally guilty thats why i dont care which side does what <img src="/~stretch/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Arioch, i as well think this soft money for the candidates has just gone to far. I think its gonna be a hard thing to stop.

I can do that too defending the facts

I posted that link because i thought u wanted me to give you proof it exists. I personally am not thrilled at posted links to back up my facts, but there is wayyyyy to much info for me to talk about hehe. Thought i would give you the link so you wouldnt have to search for what i was talking about.

Maybe I missed it, but I read that article and there wasn't one mention of any denial that the boat dudes weren't with Kerry. I'm not saying I believe it or not, but if 12-14 Vietnam vets want to lie to smear Kerry, nothing I can do about it. All of these allegations are worthless to me, because my mind is already made up.