Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Bush has my vote for 2 reasons

I've been away for a while, but why are we arguing against socialized healthcare. Neither candidate supports it. Kerry's plan has nothing to do with socialized healthcare at all.
The heart of his plan is a revolutionary idea (IMHO) in which the US government will pay for all catastrophic healthcare costs (those over $50,000) by purchasing re-insurance for all plans. This would then reduce the overall risk to insurers allowing them to therefore reduce plan costs. Basically this means guys like Couls could buy the same plan for their employees at a lower cost since they don't have to pay for the occaisional health disaster that causes an overall rise in premiums. Everyone I've talked to in the HMO industry (including a board member at a Major North Eastern HMO think it is a great plan)
Quoting from my favorite site.
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docid=207
"The heart of the Kerry plan would have the federal government pay health plans 75% of the cost of "catastrophic" medical bills -- roughly those over $50,000 a year for one patient -- in return for which the plans would agree to cut the premiums charged to workers by 10%.
Thorpe estimates that Kerry's reinsurance plan alone would cost the government $257 billion over 10 years. Thorpe estimates the cost of the entire Kerry healthcare package at $653 billion over 10 years, even after subtracting estimated savings from such things as increased use of computerized medical claims and requirements for more aggressive "disease management" of such expensive ailments as congestive heart failure and diabetes.
To be sure, that's taking money from taxpayers to subsidize businesses and workers who pay for health insurance, just as the President's supporters often say. It's also true, according to Thorpe's estimates , that Kerry's costly plan would extend health insurance to 27 million persons who don't have it now, while Bush's rival health care proposal would cover only an additional 2.4 million."
Overall more coverage for more people and reduced premium costs for businesses at a reasonable cost ($653B over 10 years) seems like a good solution that allows priviate competition and removes some distoring market forces, with a minimum of government intervention.

And I would then support it. That would reduce stuff by alot more imho.
Rahl

The Iran contra affair, well in essence proves the US was funding Iran during the Iraq , Iran war. Well that shows it funded then BOTH sides, at the same time suppling the South American Contra terrorist group with weapons.

I had posted previous times a like of countries and the weapons and equipment they gave to Iraq for WMD and non WD weaps. The USA is not alone. Brttian, Germany, Russia but still .

** Cool site just for Info ** Swiss Intel
GOT PROOF , damm. As I said look up history books. Its in there. Like asking if you got proof Hitler attacked Poland.

I can link stuff but I am sure you don't wanna read for 30 mins ...
link1
link 2

The Iran-Contra affair shows that we supplied outdated Hawk missiles to Iran so we could buy weapons for the Contras. It shows nothing about supplying Iraq.
I challenged you to name even one American weapons system that Saddam had. Can you name one?
The vast, vast majority of Saddam's weapons came from the USSR. The USA mostly gave him intel. Any arms we supplied to Iraq might account for 1% of what he received in total.
So far you have shown me nothing. Back up your claims with something, anything showing that Saddam was installed by the CIA like you said.
Or are you planning on changing the subject until you can find something you can actually argue about?

You linked to a student's paper from Princeton and some ridiculous Canadian website written by Kurt Nimmo.
Do you know how that is? He's a left-wing blogger.
http://www.kurtnimmo.com/news/
You retard hehe. Come up with something credible so I can stop laughing at you.

Still they provide names and dates. Or did they just fables ?

From what I understand the CIA did support the Baath party and Saddam.
Here is an article from a nice conservative website that gives a nice overview of our history with him. It leaves out a few key facts that I have read in other accounts but seems to present a clear picture of US support for Sadaam until Gulf war 1.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/4/10/205859.shtml
Here is some stuff from PBS as well that show a link between CIA and Saddam
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/longroad/etc/cron.html
Its hard to follow your thread, but if you are looking for specifics about providing weapons, that is not in the links, just description of the US providing intelligence and support for Saddam.
Another interesting note is how Cheney as CEO of Haliburton tried to get Clinton to reduce restrictions on American companies doing business with Terrorist countries such as Iran, Iraq.
Two years later, Cheney traveled to another country to demand America weaken restrictions on doing business with Iran?s petroleum industry, despite Clinton administration warnings that Iranian oil revenues could be used to fund terrorism. ?We're kept out of [Iran] primarily by our own government, which has made a decision that U.S. firms should not be allowed to invest significantly in Iran,? he told an oil conference in Canada. ?I think that's a mistake.?
Full article here http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=8498
I only bring this particular note up because people often change their positions based on their particular interests at the time, which I belive explains our roller coaster relationship with Saddam.

Isn't that what I have already said?
We gave the Iraqis intel and some other indirect help but a huge majority of his arms, like 90%, came from the Soviets.
Ties to the Ba'ath party and an assassination plot 20 years earlier is not evidence of the CIA installing Saddam as dictator in the late 1970's. His uncle paved the way for that.
What I asked for was not for Muja to tell me what I already knew, it was to tell me even one American weapons system Saddam used. He failed to do that.

Kerrys plan would cost me 1.4k more in taxes
no thanks ive got healthcare- so why should i pay for lazy fucks that dont get a real job