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prove how the internal combustion engine works! cus that's the same thing as believing in magic! ITS NOT IN THE BIBLE

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When you can list one case of evolution being observed then you win. Dont forget observation is one of the key steps in the scientific method of taking a theory to a law/fact. There has never been a single observed case of evolution.
Beyond that the THEORY of evolution is in opposition the 2nd LAW of thermodynamics
2nd law of thermodynamics: Physicist Lord Kelvin stated it technically as follows: "There is no natural process the only result of which is to cool a heat reservoir and do external work." In more understandable terms, this law observes the fact that the useable energy in the universe is becoming less and less. Ultimately there would be no available energy left. Stemming from this fact we find that the most probable state for any natural system is one of disorder. All natural systems degenerate when left to themselves.
If the world and or univivers is in a constant state of decay, how is that being left on our own floating in the cosmos did we manage to beat that Law and evolve, even though it states that we are in a constant state of deterioration. Your beliefs require faith in the unknown just as much as mine.

As you know my sister is an evolutionary biologist and has published more then one paper showing evolution in plants that she and her research colleagues have observed.Does this count for you or will you just discount it as more of gods work?

Last edited by [LoD]Rakoth; 10/03/07 06:35 PM.

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I'd love to see a paper of hers that demonstrates an observation of macroevolution.


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snarf #257876 10/03/07 06:48 PM
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Unfortunatly that law doesn't just apply to the sun and stars. It applies to forms of organic life as well.


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I'd love to see a paper of hers that demonstrates an observation of macroevolution.

By macroevolution do you mean the scientific version (evolution that occurs at or above the level of species) or the creationist bastardized version (one species evolving into another)?


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macroevolution as in a mutation from fish to monkey, monkey to man. Thats what you believe right?


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no shit, every living thing dies.. did you have a point? or are you just randomly putting words together?

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there isnt a fucking physicist(there may be like 2) on earth who thinks that thermodynamics has anything to do with evolution(in fact, most say it actually perpetuates it). That's been argued and killed long ago(back in the 70s-80s). Find me a peer reviewed article telling me that thermodynamics kills evolution please. I could cite dozens of critiques if you would like.
"Evolution is observable and testable. The misconception here is that science is limited to controlled experiments that are conducted in laboratories by people in white lab coats. Actually, much of science is accomplished by gathering evidence from the real world and inferring how things work. Astronomers cannot hold stars in their hands and geologists cannot go back in time, but in both cases scientists can learn a great deal by using multiple lines of evidence to make valid and useful inferences about their objects of study. The same is true of the study of the evolutionary history of life on Earth, and as a matter of fact, many mechanisms of evolution are studied through direct experimentation as in more familiar sciences.
Fossils such as Archaeopteryx give us snapshots of organisms as they adapt and change over time.
Studying modern organisms such as elephant seals can reveal specific examples of evolutionary history and bolster concepts of evolution.
Artificial selection among guppies can demonstrate microevolution in the laboratory.
Laboratory experimentation with fruit flies demonstrates the power of genetic mutation. "
stop emphasizing the word theory...
you act like faith and theory are one in the same. . Or that one must have FAITH in a theory... that's all absolutely ridiculous. That's just a classic misconception of the word theory. The word is used in an entirely different context with regards to science...
burden of proof has nothing to do with me calling you guys stupid. Theists are the ones making ridiculous claims... you have to prove ridiculous claims.
"If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time."
Cams, there was a point in our not so distant history that humans didn't understand gravity.. humans didn't understand that the world was round... humans thought the earth was the center of the universe... humans didn't think we evolved(oh wait). Ignorance doesn't justify belief in a fucking God(especially the Christian one). Is the science ROCK solid yet(there's still very little doubt among all researchers that the big bang happened)? Not at all...but the progress is amazing. I'm confident that scientists will unlock all the secrets of the universe in due time. The dark matter/energy issue is complicated.... you make it seem like that scientists have only explained 4% of the big bang theory... the 4% is REGULAR matter... all the stars/galaxies/planets/atoms. There are very few researchers that say that dark matter/energy has anythign to do with disproving the big bang. It's the joy of science. Solving problems, testing things etc. Again, it is downright silly to brush all the research off because it isn't absolutely rock solid(100%) and say Jesus exists.
my first quote was from a UC Berkeley article which provides some very easy to understand questions and answers about evolution:
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_faq.php#b1
second quote is by Bertrand Russell on the burden of proof issue.

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macroevolution as in a mutation from fish to monkey, monkey to man. Thats what you believe right?

This is far too simple an explanation and is the usual creationist line. Its even made its way into the wiki its such a popular but misguided retort.

Last edited by [LoD]Rakoth; 10/03/07 07:02 PM.

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I'm not discarding any of the research, I said that those people who do that research are mor intelligent than I can ever hope to be. A theory is somthing unproven and still to be researched. Much like what you say my beliefs are. I choose to put my faith in God, and not in man. Evolutionary science is the new fundimentalist religion, with little to no tollerance of others beliefs.


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