Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Concealed Carry Now Legal in California

^ what idea's "do" you like then? More government induced "people control?" more oversight in your life by government? That was a lot to read but you didnt really offer up anything about your idea's surrounding guns and our fictional "gun problem."

America's "gun problem" is fictional? Ok fox news.

Lol, there are 310 million people in america.. About 12,000-15,000 die from guns per year.. About 80-90% of those deaths are gang members killing eachother, the others are suicide and justified killings by individuals and police officers.. Then the rest are murders.. Look up the FBI statistics yourself by all means.

More people die from eating crappy food or driving their car each year. Compared to just these two examples gun deaths are miniscule in comparison.

The reason why you think theres an issue is because you (insert your favorite MSM source) too much yourselves. And or the topic illicit's an emotional response (which government conviently prey's upon, much like advertisers and PR firms)

What would stop the gangbangers from shooting eachother would be an end to the war on drugs.

Then, theres the fact that the court's have upheld that law enforcement are not required by law to protect you.

All of this stuff is based on fear, and as far as I can tell by reading about it, concealed carry laws have meant almost nothing towards increasing or decreasing crime.

Pro-gun guys say "an armed society is a polite society".
Anti-gun guys say "omg, every Tom, Dick and Harry will have a shootout at the 7-11!!"

Both are simplistic assholes if you ask me. And since I was curious, I went and found an article full of scholarly examinings of the findings of the effects on crime in states that have passed concealed carry laws. Interesting read, and seems to support the idea that there is no significant impact, good or bad, on overall crime in states that have the laws.

Washington Post

So if there's little to no effect, and it infringes on the freedoms of law-abiding people, why are we holding onto it so tightly?

Your first sentence in this paragraph is completely contradictory. You don't sound like someone who is willing to debate. You sound like someone with a very closed mind.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no interest in "playing God". I have the utmost respect for human life and I take civic responsibility very seriously. I think of every action I take that effects other people as a stone thrown into a pond. I try to imagine the ripples my actions will have in other peoples' lives. I simply want a CCW so that I can protect myself and my family against criminals. Have you heard of the knockout game? Bad things happen to good people all the time at the hands of others. In the event me or my family become a target, I want to have the means to defend myself against others with weapons.

I am in complete agreement with you that a 2 day class does not prepare people for live situations where people need to keep a cool head. As I recall you're a cop right Anti? How many times a year do you draw your weapon? However many it is, the average civilian with a CCW should draw less than that many in their entire life. Being a cop, I appreciate your perspective because you're the one that sees people at their worst and know what they are capable of.

Maybe an answer would be that people with a CCW should have to have psych evaluations? I wouldn't be adverse to that. The same kind of psych evaluations law enforcement officers have to go through. Another possibility might be a stricter standard than the "reasonable person" standard for deadly force.

I am in agreement that the average shithead should not have a CCW and be toting guns around. However, I think responsible citizens like myself shouldn't be prohibited from carrying just because a few assholes go nuts every once in a while. How many cases have their been where cops shot people under questionable circumstances? Jonathan Ferrell is a recent example. Even cops with proper training are not immune to making mistakes. Does that mean cops should start using rubber bullets?

I think there is a reasonable middle ground here but I don't think prohibiting carrying a gun outside your home is it.

Great post Rolo. Very logical and well thought out. Article was interesting.

I live in California too. I was thinking about it after reading your post. I'm an ex-AF cop with lots of training on when it's ok or not ok to kill a person. You'd think people in my community would want good people like me carrying a weapon. I've never applied for a CCW because I know I wouldn't be able to get one. That seems fucked up to me.

I am willing to debate if someone comes up with something worth debating.



Yes I've heard of the knockout game, I took a report involving a victim. Based on what you're saying, because there's a possibility that someone might assault you, you deserve the right to carry around a lethal weapon? Even though the possibility is less than 1%, it makes sense that you should have the ability to take a life based on your state of mind at the time of the incident without proper training or knowledge of how to handle that situation? I'll tell you this, someone takes a swing at you, you draw down and kill him, you're going to prison. Would that be in the best interest of your family? You going to prison because you were given a gun, killed someone when you thought you were in the right, and depriving your wife and kids of a father for many years?

You know the hardest part about my job? Making that arrest, when the person you know, deep down, is a good person. Things just escalated and "the knife was right there" or "I was afraid so I grabbed a bat."



There's a reason why a small percentage of the population is capable of becoming law enforcement. This job is not for everyone.

The difference between LE and a civilian with a CCW, before someone else brings it up, is we're trained to address all kinds of situations and adapt to new ones. I carry everywhere I go because I know that if something goes down I will react. I won't freeze, I won't make an irrational decision. I cannot say the same for a person that has NEVER been a situation like that before but someone has the right to carry around a lethal weapon.



I had no problem with the system. You go in front of the Sheriff and say you need a CCW because you're afraid of the boogeyman, you aren't getting a CCW. You go in front of the sheriff and say that you're a public figure or have a different legitimate reason to fear for your safety and you get it.

Another interesting thing that we're (I haven't personally) running into now is all current CCWs. Such as agriculture and weird departments have CCW. People that aren't trained adequately, but think that because they have a gun they have the same capabilities as LE. So when 3 of us have one dude, holding a knife, at gun point and we see a plain clothes civilian draw a gun, what then? Should we stop to ask him if he has his CCW?

Again, it's referencing a Fox News article where there wasn't a sample size or any raw data. Just NRA members stating that their opinions are facts.

You guys are bringing up a lot of good points, but guns are totally badass and everyone knows it.