Lords of Death Forums Lords of Death Forums LoD General Discussion Greatest Healthcare In THE WORLD

well what are the conditions that need to be met to consider it better than the old healthcare system? mind you; a majority of Americans polled want the old system back. Free market capitalism is destroyed by government intervention, pretty simple. We have a mixed economy for sure, which isn't necessarily a horrible thing.. but remember the housing bubble that started this whole financial mess? yeah that's because the government told the banks that the risk will be placed on the taxpayers backs instead of their own.. so obviously the banks gave shit sub-prime mortgages to poor people who couldn't afford them...then that little bubble burst and boom.. just another example for you.

The next bubble to go will be the trillion dollars in student loan debt nationally because some baby boomer fucks raised Jodie and Susie telling them how important college is. So they go to college for Women's Gender Studies and Political Science, get saddled with 50k debt a piece and cant get a fucking job because of the ridiculous degree's they have as a result of the same generation that told them to go to college creating worthless degree's.

Healthcare is a necessity, but Obamacare treats healthcare as an entitlement and I think that's where it goes wrong.

Being entitled to healthcare is a slippery slope. You might say everyone is entitled to "basic" healthcare (and even that's a stretch, I don't really agree with any government entitlement programs), but should a welfare baby who has cancer get the million dollar experimental cancer treatment on the taxpayers back?

Hell no!

So I say healthcare is not an entitlement. You can get healthcare if you can pay for it. You can get better healthcare if you can pay more for it.

With how piss poor the coverage is with Obamacare (see my previous post about doctors putting my youngest brother who is on obamacare at the back of the line behind those with private insurance) it might head that way anyways. Those that are on Obamacare won't pay hardly anything for it (my brother for example pays like $6/mo and gets a $250/mo government subsidy to cover his healthcare) but they'll get sub standard care. Those who can afford it will buy private insurance and get good care.

This is how it works in my socialist countries. The government provided healthcare is shit for the most part so those who can afford it buy additional private insurance or just pay cash to the best doctors. We have plenty of Canadians in this guild - I've heard you can wait FOREVER to get a necessary operation through the free Canadian healthcare system. I've also heard people go to the emergency room with a headache so they can get free Advil.

Using my youngest brother as an example again, he smokes a pack of cigarettes a day which comes out to about $150/mo I suppose. Yet he gets a $250/mo government subsidy for his healthcare. WHEN he gets cancer from smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, he SHOULD NOT get the latest and greatest cancer treatment paid for by the government. He should get only what he can afford, no more, no less.

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WTB edit button.

Just to address the Canadian health care, it's not as bad as it is made out to be, but it is in need of some definite improvement. If your case is important enough, you are shunted to the front of the line. The most I have heard of someone waiting for important surgery is a month and a half, that was my mother for breast cancer surgery after the tumours were deemed semi-benign.

The emergency rooms is another issue. The thing you heard about people going there to get free Advil? That's retarded and it simply does not happen. Stay off Reddit. BUT, there is a problem with people going to the emergency room for things that should be handled by other areas of the health care system. The problem with emergency room care is it is a finite resource. If you have a bunch of people going to the emergency room for things like chronic back pain or a baby with a fever it is going to become overcrowded. People will then complain things are overcrowded and more money will be allocated for emergency room care (arguably the most expensive) and things will still get backed up. If more funding is spent on preventative medicine and palliative care or other options like health lines (numbers you can call to get health advice) billions can be saved yearly. This is something the province I live in is moving towards and they figure it will cut $2.1b from the budget.

Also, that bit about your brother the smoker? No joke, smokers in Canada actually make more of a contribution to the system than non-smokers. With the taxes on cigarettes and such, they will spend more in 25 years supporting their habit than they will cost the health care system by almost four to one.

All this said, Obamacare is a joke. From what I understand (and I haven't researched it enough to know how much truth there is in this) you can thank much of the republican congress for that. A lot of the issues with the bill were added on by them to get it passed into law. If it is going to get pushed through against their wishes, make it look bad. BUT, it's damn good it did get through. It's much easier to fix something that is broken than it is to introduce a whole new idea.

I've made jokes on here about how Socialism is the best. Not something I completely believe or agree with, but I will say this: You pay more in taxes in socialist countries, but not by a lot (at least Canada). What you do is get services for the taxes you pay. I simply can't understand why you guys pay taxes down there, especially the amounts you do. What the hell for? Your education system sucks, your health care is terrible, you have no child care, your crime rates are high as a result. I don't mean to rag on America, please don't take it that way, but the question needs to be asked, if you get shitty to no service for the taxes you pay, why pay taxes? Especially at the level you do.

Also, is the complaints about lazy people just mooching off the government actually a problem or a perceived problem? What do you get in welfare down there? Up here I would NEVER want to be on welfare, it is simply way to low to have any kind of life ( in the area of $425 a month).

I hope I haven't pissed anyone off. Totally not my intention, just really curious.

I wrote a real long response but decided to delete it. I don't get too involved in news/politics because it just pisses me off.

To answer your welfare question, here's an example (extreme, but factual): http://www.hawaiireporter.com/it-pays-no...efits-in-us/123

Holy shit, $49,000 a year? Seriously? And you get to live in Hawaii? You fucking commies.

That's $49k AFTER TAXES. To make $49k after taxes they said that's roughly $60k before taxes.

What blazzen said, and probably the biggest thing you Canadians forget is that your whole country is quite large with quite a lot of natural resources, with a population of only 34 million. To put that in perspective NYC is roughly 1/3 the population of your ENTIRE country. Thats why universal healthcare works decently well there, I'm not agianst the whole idea of healthcare for all in places like canada because its population makes it feasible.. With a country of 330 million, it simply will not work or have any real fiscal longevity. My generation is slowly realizing that social security and these other "entitlements" our parents had simply wont be around when we are at retirement age. The US is going to go broke before that if it stays on its current track.

Also, the ACA was passed in the dead of night without a single republican vote. The democrats rammed it through and Nancy Pelosi famously said "we need to pass the bill so you can see whats in it." Thats an admission of a bad sale of goods if you ask me.

Its ultimately not about healthcare, its about merging 1/6th of the economy with the government.

The level of misinformation and hype in this thread is hilarious. The more I learn about the ACA, the more I support it. And you better get used to the ACA because Republicans aren't going to replace it even if they could. Those of you foaming at the mouth about it should take a look in the mirror and say "Fox News owned me."