The whole thing is just weird to me. As a conceal & carry permit holder I am allowed to draw and shoot to kill in order to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony, but the police aren't allowed to do so? When you commit a forcible felony you gamble with your life, but these guys are throwing molotovs and burning down shit without getting shot at.
“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
It's fucked up but I think it's about time major news outlets started showing the American people how fucking ridiculous it is for American LEO's to have military grade vehicles and weaponry. Maybe now that's it covered by someone entertaining, the obs/sonya/whoever else camp will wake up and smell the coffee. Probably not.
Yeah, we're not a police state. LMAO, i wouldn't let one of my boots walk out of the armory with the setup some of these clowns have on their M4's. "Never point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot." Amateur hour.
Vermithrax]It's fucked up but I think it's about time major news outlets started showing the American people how fucking ridiculous it is for American LEO's to have military grade vehicles and weaponry. Maybe now that's it covered by someone entertaining, the obs/sonya/whoever else camp will wake up and smell the coffee. Probably not.
There needs to be a better scale for escalation of force. I haven't kept 100% up to date on this story, but it does seem/look like the cops went to full battle rattle too quickly. When the crowd starts shooting and throwing Molotovs, by all means kit up to stay alive and disperse the mob (as is their duty, preserving the public peace). However if it is a peaceful demonstration, I don't think the APCs, sniper rifles, etc need to be brought out in the open. Have'em ready for worst case scenario, but stay discrete.
It does look like they need a lot better training for escalation of force, muzzle awareness, and general don't be a fucking stormtrooper until it is absolutely necessary.
Their display of force and generally the perception the public has when men dressed as soldiers show up in armored vehicles in their neighborhood and aim big ass guns at them is the root of the problem to begin with.
This is what G-Fist (in his less than succinct way) was trying to say before when this was discussed. When police act like they did here, dress as combat soldiers, and ride around in tank like vehicles with heavy weaponry, it creates an air of intimidation. It also affects their attitude and the way they treat the communities they're supposed to serve. They're not on foreign soil. We're not in a civil war. These people are American citizens. They're not the enemy.
The situation was already volatile enough after the shooting. The only thing they did by showing up with this massive show of force was escalate a situation that was already bad enough. They hardly need MRAPs, sniper rifles and automatic weapons to deal with bottles and Molotov cocktails.
Answer me this. Should police forces have armored personnel carriers? If yes, when/what is an appropriate situation to use them?
Originally Posted By: [LoD
Vermithrax]Their display of force and generally the perception the public has when men dressed as soldiers show up in armored vehicles in their neighborhood and aim big ass guns at them is the root of the problem to begin with.
This is what G-Fist (in his less than succinct way) was trying to say before when this was discussed. When police act like they did here, dress as combat soldiers, and ride around in tank like vehicles with heavy weaponry, it creates an air of intimidation. It also affects their attitude and the way they treat the communities they're supposed to serve. They're not on foreign soil. We're not in a civil war. These people are American citizens. They're not the enemy.
The situation was already volatile enough after the shooting. The only thing they did by showing up with this massive show of force was escalate a situation that was already bad enough. They hardly need MRAPs, sniper rifles and automatic weapons to deal with bottles and Molotov cocktails.
I don't disagree when the cops show up in kit like that, it's a big fucking deal. I think the only time it should happen is when the situation warrants a big fucking response. I don't think Ferguson at the beginning required that response. However when they started to vandalize businesses, throw Molotov cocktails, and shoot at the police, then the situation just became a big fucking deal (quite possibly in response to the police escalating it). I do not know the specific timelines on who started the arms race. Regardless who started it, the police should be the ones to finish it.
I would not agree that there are no scenarios when the police should not have MRAPs, sniper rifles, and automatic weapons. I do think there needs to be a much tighter control on when they are deployed. At the end of the rioting, they were warranted, in my opinion (MRAPs to combat the flames, regular police vehicles are not adequate), sniper rifles to combat any long range shooting at the police/citizenry, and automatic weapons on standby in case they are needed to immediately de-escalate a situation where a criminal employs close quarters firearms.
We're in the same book I think, maybe just different pages.
